A few notes on the events that lead to my being banned from Daily Kos. A lot of people have said in comments that I was banned because there ‘wasn’t a shred of evidence!’ and many are still saying that.
That’s not the case – there was evidence. The reason I was right and they were wrong is that they choose to ignore that evidence and I didn’t. And I mean ‘ignore’ quite literally – they made a decision to not even look at the evidence based solely on it’s source.
Here’s a direct quote from Kos commenter on my first diary that discussed this..
“The enquirer has NEVER broken a legitimate “real” news story in their existence.”
That statement was repeated about the National Enquirer and Fox News countless times; that they were never right. And people meant it. They argued that nothing the NE or Fox said was true, ever.
Obviously and I mean OBVIOUSLY if you think about the statement about the NE ‘never having broken a legitimate news story’ or Fox News ‘never being right ‘, they aren’t correct. Never right? Never ever? NEVER ever?
Here’s what is true — it’s smart to read both the NE and Fox with a skeptical eye. That’s what I did; I looked at their statements carefully and tried to think through the logical conclusions of their claims. That process wasn’t a snap judgment. I spent hours talking to my wife and friends about story, trying to reason out what I thought. I urged people to look into it for themselves.
Here’s how I responded in comments.
Just because the Enquirer says somethings doesn’t make it untrue. Which part of what they said have you looked into for yourself and decided wasn’t true?
Nobody answered that.
For anyone claiming I was banned because I kept writing diaries; the calls for my banning started on diary number one. The next two diaries were attempts to address things that had been brought up in the first diary, which had grown to an unmanagable 600+ comments. The fourth diary was an attempt to explain why any reporter would know something was up with Edwards when he started ducking reporters, without making any reference to the NE or Fox.
I accused of browbeating people. Again, here are my words from comments.
Wait and see is fine.
Skeptical until more evidence is totally fine.
Another claim made about me is that I was impolite. Given the completely over the top way I was attacked on both a personal and professional level, this is insulting.
And I was attacked. Read the comments if you have any doubts. I was called an asshole and a prick and a douchebag and liar and a troll and a concern troll and if I wasn’t troll, I was sure ACTING like a troll. People said I fucked gorillas and dogs. I was compared to dictators and told my penis should fall off. I was accused of being a GOP operative. It was seriously suggested that I worked for Karl Rove or Walmart. My motivations, intelligence, honesty, fitness to write and future prospects were all questions.
If any of the people who struck out at me so harshly have admitted they were wrong, I missed it. Instead – incredibly – many of them have continued to argue that I got what I deserved…and why? Because I was a prick and an asshole and a troll.
Finally, after I was banned I was attacked for talking about being banned. I was called a ‘whiner’ because I didn’t just lay down and die after the banning. Apparently some people are so driven to want to shut down discussion that it’s frustrating to them that they can’t do it anywhere except DailyKos.
One final note – I did write Kos days ago. I haven’t heard anything. I’m still banned. Frontpagers who attacked me like BarbInMD and KangroX haven’t backed down to my knowledge because, ya know – I’m an asshole and I had no proof. Except for the proof that turned out to be correct in exactly the way I said it would.
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You should wear your banning like a badge of honor, Lee. That site has self-selected into the worst fringe elements on the left. We should be thankful that we all know where they congregate so that we can avoid them like the plague on the body politic that they are.
Kos is a big community and there are some really great people there. But the mob took over on this issue and made a lot of innocent and fair minded lib’ruls look bad.
Since you crossposted, I’ll do so as well.
I like how you paint yourself as some bastion of politeness and openmindedness.
You continually stated that the Enquirer had “irrefutable proof” and that “irrefutable proof” was Edwards avoiding media, and the picture was “irrefutable.”
Those things were untrue.
There were valid questions about the photos, and certainly valid questions about the NE.
I don’t believe I ever said flat out “Lee is wrong, there’s nothing here”; my problem was your tone and your attitude about there being “Irrefutable proof” when it was anything but.
/shrug
I feel bad that your friend might get banned over this, but at least you got your “I’m Lee Stranahan REMEMBER ME???” moment out of the way.
I never once said ‘the Enquirer had irrefutable proof’ – please go and read that piece again. And I was banned before the pictures came out.
You’re right, you never said the Enquirer had irrefutable proof, my mistake on that. And my timeline is incorrect about the photo, I must have been thinking of someone else. Apologies, after I type this here I’ll fix it at DK, too.
Allow me to correct my mistakes:
Your irrefutable proof was Edwards avoiding reporters.
The only thing that’s irrefutable proof of is that…. he avoided reporters.
To somehow conflate that into “He definitely had an affair” is simply irresponsible and no doubt played a large role into why you were banned.
And quite often in your diaries, you turned from this:
“It’s about the increasingly realistic possibility that John Edwards pursued a reckless course of action while seeking the Democratic nomination for the nation’s highest office. If so, that’s a serious betrayal of the voters who supported Edwards or considered voting for him and frankly of the entire Democratic Party.”
which I fully and completely agree with by the way, into a “Woe is me, everyone’s being mean and persecuting me but look how popular I am on these other sites!” nonsense.
You spent a lot more time focusing on why we should take the NE and Fox News seriously and about poor, poor Lee Stranahan than the reckless and selfish actions of John Edwards and how this could have literally destroyed our chances for the Presidency. That really made it seem like you were more concerned about getting your props than about what was important on the story.
That’s how I saw it, at any rate.
Again, that’s not what I said. I said that to any reporter, the fact that Edwards was ducking them is proof positive he’s hiding something – that there was a scandal. I never said it was proof of an affair, I said proof of a scandal.
I never said we should take Fox and the NE ’seriously’ as a general rule – I said, don’t let your bias or theirs keep you from the figuring out the truth.
As for making it personal, go read the threads on Kos – commenters made it VERY personal about me. Dude – I was accused of making every video I’ve made as a trick to sneak into the progressive blogosphere. SERIOUSLY. But when I answer that charge, it’s ‘poor me’?
C’mon…get real.
Lee, I just want to congratulate you for sticking to your guns on the Edwards’ story. Over the years I have been a Daily Kos member I have gone from great enthusiasm about the site to indifference. More and more the front page writers have lapsed into self-satisfied pontificating – Kagro X is a good example. When I read your first diaries on this subject I thought you were probably right, and was astonished at the venom directed against you. I have always liked Edwards but I have never supported him as a candidate. Many of his supporters, however, are totally blind to the reality of the man. He has changed positions on just about every major issue depending on which way the wind was blowing, and yet many saw him as a strong progressive.So thanks again for seeing the reality and insisting on telling it like it is.
Well, for what it’s worth, Lee, I was with you throughout, and I would’ve commented at the Kos diaries but there were already so many comments–and so much vitriol and nastiness aimed at you–I decided I would not sign in and get involved. You are smart and well able to defend yourself and your actions as a journalist and artist. And that’s what you did in this case.
It’s funny–I left the group blog to which I contributed (and which gave me my first break as a blogger, before I knew what blogging was, even!) over the same groupthink B.S.: a slew of commenters were all saying that if Obama won the nomination, they would sit home or vote for McCain. And when I suggested, in a comment thread, that this was insanity–and that any liberal who’d encourage such a thing was being irresponsible, given that in swing states (like FL, where I live), such behavior in the past contributed mightily to Bush’s “win” in 2000–I was denounced for violating the blogmistress’s new “it’s my vote, no-one can tell me how to use it” safe-space policy.
Safe space meaning, anyone who dares to suggest contrary views, even well-reasoned and polite ones, will be ganged-up on and shouted down as snobbish, a traitor, elitist, you name it. Safe from all challenges to what was, to put it charitably, a highly questionable ideology? Because as we all know, it’s more important to be safe and secure in our beliefs than it is to open our eyes and expand our minds?
Anyway, I hope you’ll keep posting the utterly brilliant videos, and I hope you’ll keep writing for the HuffPo.
(And I completely agree re: the NE and FOX: don’t discount out of hand, but rather, read, watch, and then verify!)
I did stick up for Lee at DK and I got the same horrible verbal abuse that he did..made me ashamed to be a Democrat, quite frankly. And not a one of those bastards has made any attempt to say, hey, I’m sorry. Fuck em’.
Side note: the NY Post is reporting that back in Aug 07, they ran a blind item about JE and his GF and how he had told her that once his wife was “out of the picture” they get married…
You were banned and you won. You have always had integrity and in my eyes you are one heck of a journalist. The papers in NYC are all over this. From the NYDailyNews: “Enquirer minds were first to know and it wasn’t tabloid trash.”
One thing I learned: after a banning one rarely gets back. The next step is they will start calling you “over-invested.” Left, right, up or down… most internet sites have a lemming mentality. So, know inside you that this breaking story makes them look foolish. They now should be chagrined. But, they will keep on with their agenda and find other ways to denigrate and perhaps ridicule you. It’s in the script.
Read my comments on your original thread. You were banned because they have assholes running the show at Kos. You are now vindicated. If the banners had a shread of class they would write an apology to you and front page it on Kos. Plus restore your membership. Somehow I highly doubt it though.
Take your good writing and make a name for yourself in places where there aren’t a bunch of mindless sheep.
BTW, there is more to this story. Edwards lied in the ABC interview last night. He contradicted himself from beginning to end and if you read all the Enquirer articles, the timeline is different from what Edwards is saying and the Andrew Young involvement looks to be a major cover up. Compare his statements, her statements, Young’s and the Enquirer reports over the past year.
Do we really believe a woman who is emailing and calling her friends, telling about the affair and how much she loves him was never told she was loved by him in return (as Edwards claims) and at the same time (as Young claims) would be having sex with ANOTHER married man during 2006 while in love with Edwards? Then get pregnant and move next door to that man while his wife and kids visit her? The photo of Edwards in the hotel (we know it was from the curtains) holding some baby has still to be explained. The fact he never told his wife he was going to meet Hunter in California until AFTER the Enquirer busted him that morning and he knew Elizabeth would find out so he then told her. Doesn’t sound like a man whose affair was two years ago and is trying to heal with his family. If the meeting (he claims one, ABC claims several) was really about getting her not to spill the beans, he would have told his wife and sent a surrogate. I suspect the affair went on all through 2007 (and even more recent) and either he is still lying to his wife, or she is enabling him.
The other thing I know is this isn’t his first affair. Several bloggers claim to know he is a serial cheater. I have no documentation but this is what I do know. When a person strays for the first time especially if you have been faithful for 30 years, you don’t do it in such a reckless public way like Edwards did. You don’t do it in the middle of getting ready to run for president then hire your mistress on. The sheer audacity of the entire circumstances leads me to believe that he is a serial cheater. He planned too much out in advance and took too many risks only serial cheaters are cocky enough to think they will get away with. He admitted in the ABC interview he never thought he would get caught. Not by the public at least.
It is also likely Elizabeth has known about his affairs over the years and turned a blind eye, which would explain why after knowing of this affair she didn’t do what the vast majority of wives would and tell him under no circumstances can he run for president that year. Instead she agrees even after finding out she has cancer and takes her kids on the road? Doesn’t sound like a family trying to men or a narcissistic egomaniac (per his admissions) trying to humble himself. Instead he did the opposite and thrust himself into running for the highest office and biggest ego trip and all the while his wife and he put on these fake airs of this close knit family to get campaign donations and emotionally draw voters in. I had a great deal of Elizabeth but the more I think about this it doesn’t add up and she has a huge role on the deceit to the public.
Plus, after he supposedly told his wife, by his own admission and Hunters he had contact with her. He admitted to phone calls but in 2007 when the affair was supposedly over she was still on the payroll.
On Huffington or one of the sites a member of Miss Hunter’s film crew said Elizabeth called at one point to get Hunter’s phone number. Why would she not just ask her husband for it? I suspect this is when Elizabeth first caught onto the affair and Edwards only confessed after she confronted him. His version is he told her. Yes, factually accurate but the reporter never asked any of the key questions…did she confront you about rumors or suspicions before you admitted it? There were a lot of questions not answered…like why the photo with the baby has the same hotel curtains as Hunters room if you Sid you were not there holding a baby?
Then there are statements Elizabeth made in 2007 and this year that really got me thinking. She said she didn’t know if John was really “the one” and still wasn’t sure after they married. She talked about the hard work and disappointments in marriage. I remember that struck me as both really honest and very odd to say in public when it could hurt your spouse i.e. Your not being sure he is the one. Now it could be her reaction to the affair with what we know now but it could also be what it appeared at the time a commentary on their whole relationship. At the time I distinctly remember that it came across that she had invested more in the relationship than he had and there was some resentment on her part. There was also a comment about her cancer that sounded like she was not happy about putting others first and it led her to not take care of herself like she should.
If you really want to dig and do some bona fide reporting, I recommend following the money trail. There is likely some illegal activity going on from campaign funds to Hunter. This story has just started.
For the record, I was an Edwards’ supporter.
And TheBlaz, suck it up and apologize already! Your damn excuses and still attacking Lee, even now that his is proven right, just shows why so many of you cannot be taken seriously. You guys like to call everyone else wingnuts but your actions are showing who really needs a reality check.
Narcissists kill the messenger. Stop doing to Lee what Edwards was (and still is) doing to the people that exposed his fricken lies.
I’ve got no reason to apologize.
I never hide-rated him, never called for his banning.
I disagreed with his categorizing “Edwards avoiding reporters” as irrefutable proof, and I completely and totally stand by that.
I called his actions and attitude like I saw them. Nothing he has said has changed that.
And if you could read, you’d see that Lee showed me where my timeline was wrong and where I got what he said wrong, which I then posted attached to a comment of mine on DailyKos.
You want some people to apologize, why don’t you target the people who personally attacked him as opposed to the person who came here, admitted he was wrong when he was, and engaged in debate?
Or hold on to your anger at DailyKos. Whichever is more fulfilling for you.
Massive Fail, indeed. Edwards had the ingenuity to turn to bloggers to promote his campaign. He may have been one of the first. That may explain the rabid reaction en masse. You were writing to the base..and suffered the mob rule mentality. 200 years ago, you would have been unjustly tarred and feathered! And all you did was add things up!
Now that this has all settled a bit, I am kind of creeped out by the Edwardses. If in fact it’s the truth, that the affair and all happened the way they claim it did, and EE was complicit in letting her husband go forward knowing he could be utterly destroyed with some sort of October surprise. Geez. Mr. Edwards said too much in revealing “narcissistic” tendencies. That’s a hell of a lot of self love. And zero love of country, party, progressives. The country cannot afford another Republican.
This could have been a true Camelot catastrophe where the indiscretions of two bring down a kingdom.
Daily Kos is a bunch of drama queens and histrionic schnauzers all balled up into one lame hissy fit. And Man when the mob starts to sway the bridge, you better jump because your reason and facts are not the cables that will save you over there in their cosy gated community fantasy world.
Once they even jumped their beloved leader for posting the actual color of John McCain’s teeth! They started their own lame little threads about why it’s not nice to pick on people’s tooth color. Also when someone funny made a graphic of John Mccain’s head a little tumor on the side of his own head, those freaks went absolutely berzerk! You would have thought they guy had made a post called: IF YOU HAVE CANCER, YOU’RE DUMB AND YOU SUCK. I’ve seen them obliterate good diaries (LIKE YOURS) with one borg starting the old: ~ FAIL ~ game and the other borgs dutifully following suit. I wonder if they’re being pitched for a VH1 reality show.
I was the only one who perhaps thanked you for your post over there (I RARELY POST BUT TO DEFEND GOOD DIARIES & NEWS FROM THE PSYCHO GROUP-THINK “TROLL” THRASH FEST) and when the diaries hit the fan after Edwards came out of the polygamy closet, I posted in each one that those dorks owe you & others who tried to talk about it in a “progressive” place an apology. I said: Y’all should not love any politician THIS MUCH!
I supported Lee on DKos, and have just posted in Kos’ own diary about the Elizabeth Edwards diary that Lee should be reinstated there. {ProfJonathan}
“That’s not the case – there was evidence. The reason I was right and they were wrong is that they choose to ignore that evidence and I didn’t. And I mean ‘ignore’ quite literally – they made a decision to not even look at the evidence based solely on it’s source.”
Reminds me of ignored intelligence, pre-Iraq. One more example of neocon scam. Moulitsas is in on it.
Hey Lee, when you going to come-down on these tards for debunking 911 truth??? This issue is nothing compared to that.
The Daily Kos injured itself in at least one small way – just that brief introduction showed me that ‘far end of the spectrum’ which looks just look like the far Right’s bizarre end. Just as ugly, just as biased. And I think they injured the Democrats, too, because those of us who are more moderate, in the middle politically, begin to distrust them. Edwards didn’t do this – he’s just one self-serving louse. But the Kos really hurt ‘the cause’ in my view. You’re entitled to speak your mind, freely, be open – as long as it completely tows the line & doesn’t offend their contributors (ie, Elizabeth Edwards.)
Doctors can explain options but shouldn’t provide opinions unless medically necessary!